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GM: They Didn't Actually Pay Back the Money...

by: DocJess

Tue Nov 24, 2009 at 09:42:37 AM EST


Every time I write about the economy, I feel there is something I'm missing that I just cannot put my finger on. I may be closing in on the elusive bit based on a conversation I saw a few days ago between two  people who are related to one another through their offsprings' marriage.

The woman asked the man, a retired financial analyst, about opening a Roth IRA. He immediately jumped into a discussion of the different brokerage houses, and which was better. He ignored two things. The minor one was that there are other options which cost less in fees. The major one was that the woman asking the question was retired, and Roths are restricted to earned income, and therefore she would not be opening one.

A lot of "the economy" is like that: the "professionals" look at one set of data, while the rest of us look at reality. First up, General Motors - that company you own a part of as a US taxpayer.

A few days ago, "them that know" were all agog about how GM had started returning money it borrowed, and that $6.7 billion return overshadowed the $1.2 billion third quarter loss. Thing is, GM didn't actually give back any money. The financial types knew this, Tim Geithner and Larry Summers knew it, but it got buried because the MSM financial press either knew and it didn't suit their purposes, or they didn't look carefully enough at the numbers. Here it is:

Moreover, G.M. is not, in the strictest sense, paying back taxpayers at all. Rather, it is refunding $6.7 billion of an $18 billion escrow account that was given to it by the government when it emerged from bankruptcy. The rest of that account will be used to cover fourth-quarter losses (including $2.8 billion pledged for the rescue of G.M.’s major parts supplier, Delphi), repay loans from the Canadian government, and possibly prop up the automaker’s shaky European operations. That escrow account is due to expire in June, at which time G.M. will repay what remains of the $6.7 billion from this week’s pledge — and then pocket the estimated $5.6 billion remainder.

Got that?

Fritz Henderson, current CEO, sees a potential solution in offering an IPO. I very rarely offer any investment advice, but if you are considering this IPO, ask yourself how many Americans will pony up $40,000 for a Volt potentially made in Asia by GM.....

DocJess :: GM: They Didn't Actually Pay Back the Money...
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Your anecdote (4.00 / 1)
Your anecdote is actually even more telling than you made it out to be.

From what you said, the retired woman asked the retired analyst about opening a Roth IRA, and he answered.

In other words, the non-financial-professional had just enough information already to be dangerous; she'd heard about Roth IRA's, and asked about them. And then the analyst answered, without thinking or realizing the question was really "what should I do with my money?"

This is symbolic of the disfunction we face. Products are hyped, usually with the tag line "talk to your financial advisor." Then when a person acts about the product to an advisor, they don't consider appropriateness or alternatives, because the client asked about the specific product!

The same thing happens in medicine, to some extent, when people who have seen pharmaceutical commercials then ask their doctors about those products.

So we're in this weird place, where people have been empowered enough to control the discussion with their advisors, but that discussion is being driven by advertising and hype.

I don't have easy answers or blame to spread around on this dynamic right now, particularly since I've got a train to catch right now. But it's worth thinking about.


Not to nit-pick (0.00 / 0)
But in a Roth IRA you do not need Earned Income, you just need taxable compensation. For instance, I am on Military Retirement Pension, that is taxable income, so therefore I can contribute to a Roth.

So, if the lady has taxable income, she might qualify for a Roth, but there are probably better investment devises for her.

On the GM deal. Considering they are part of the government (not officially, but book wise they are right now), a little numbers in the books shifting is expected. That is how Government works. They just shift $$ from one column to another until someone notices. Then they go out to another column to make it look like they corrected it.


Earned v Taxable Income (0.00 / 0)
Um, no....she receives an INCREDIBLY small amount of Social Security, supplemented with food stamps, as well as cash contributions from some of her kids. And he KNEW that...

[ Parent ]
Sure (0.00 / 0)
Withhold that information. My info is correct. You don't need earned income, just taxable income to contribute to a Roth IRA.  

[ Parent ]
MisterEd (0.00 / 0)
Fair enough...

I withheld a whole bunch of the story - like the fact that she found out about Roth's because she was looking for a shopping channel that sold a certain doll or statuette or something, and happened to end up watching a "get rich" program which said that until you had a fully funded Roth and $1,000,000 in life insurance, you shouldn't own a house, or have any savings or anything else. She thought that if she could somehow "get" the money, she would be rich in no time.

I also withheld that because she is sorta related to me, I once took her to lunch, where she took the uneaten french fries home because (and I am NOT making this up) she feared if she left them on her plate, they would be served to someone else. I didn't have the heart to ask what she thought happened to french fries OTHER people left.

The man once explained to me that there was nothing that I knew that he didn't know better, by virtue of the fact that he was a generation older and he'd "lived".

I spared you.....


[ Parent ]



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