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Sunday with the Senators: Changing Rating in Florida

by: DocJess

Sun Nov 22, 2009 at 07:56:12 AM EST


The next time Matt updates the Senate rankings, you'll notice that my Florida ranking has been changed from "Leans Republican" to "Solid Republican." I had held some hope that maybe, just maybe, we could take the seat, but that was predicated on Charlie Crist winning the GOp primary, and that ship sailed.

Rubio seems to be unstoppable, and my potential pick fave candidate doesn't want to run on the Democratic side. My reasoning doesn't rely on polls, but on demographics and a few, um, intangibles, but I know you folks like polls, so here you go:

Quinnipiac:

Gov. Charlie Crist's lead over former state house speaker Marco Rubio in the 2010 Republican U.S. Senate primary has been cut in half from 55 - 26 percent to 50 - 35 percent, but the Governor tops the leading Democrat, U.S. Rep. Kendrick Meek, 51 - 31 percent among all voters, while Rubio trails Meek 36 - 33 percent, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today. 

Rasmussen 1:

The latest Rasmussen Reports telephone survey of likely GOP Primary voters in the state finds Crist outdistancing Rubio 49% to 35%. Four percent (4%) like some other candidate, and 12% are undecided.

Rasmussen 2:

A new Rasmussen Reports survey of Florida voters shows Governor Charlie Crist leading Representative Kendrick Meek by a 46% to 34% margin. In August, Crist led by 19 and in June he was ahead by 21.

Former Florida House Speaker Marco Rubio leads Meek by a similar margin, 46% to 31%. In August, Rubio led by 13 percentage points.

In both situations, Crist is dropping relative to Rubio, and in the Rasmussen poll, has fallen below the critical 50% mark. 

If you like polling data, you know it's not just the raw numbers, but the trends. 

I believe Rubio eventually wins both the primary and the general, and therefore the seat stays Republican for a few reasons. First, the black vs. brown issue. Hispanics in Florida are better organized than African Americans. Don't get me wrong, Kendrick Meek's mother Carrie is a force to be reckoned with, and she held the seat Kendrick has now for the 10 years preceding him.  It's an overwhelmingly Democratic district. The rest of Florida is not such a Democratic happy place.

Second, the older vote in Florida is something to consider. The choice will be between a serious progressive and a serious conservative. (Rubio is backed by the Club for Growth.) If you look at what happened in the NY-23, and what is happening in the Texas gubernatorial race, you'll notice that the far right wingnuts organize MUCH better than the "regular" Republicans, and their machine is nothing to scoff at. Democrats in Florida don't have that sort of organization, nor the drive to get behind a true progressive.

So, I'm thinking this race is cherry red, and our money and efforts are better spent in more competitive Senate races next year. I'd like to be wrong.  

DocJess :: Sunday with the Senators: Changing Rating in Florida
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wow! not only do i hope you are wrong (0.00 / 0)
as a floridian, i think you are, too.

crist is widely supported by moderate and progressives of all stripes, but rubio is considered a teabagger nut case that only about 50% of the sunshine state GOP support and almost no indies or dems would consider voting for him. i think the GOP's only chance is to have Crist win the primary, i am pulling for rubio to motivate the crazies and take the primary, then motivate us dems to stop him and elect meek, in two of the last three national elections, i would remind you that florida went blue, even if the supreme court ruled otherwise. the entire strength of the FLAGOP has been the fairly moderate crist. if they take him down, i see a resurgence of FLADEMs


Not that organized (0.00 / 0)
I don't think I'd described the wingnuts as organized. Energized, maybe. But as I tell my physics students, energy is not the same as momentum. Momentum always has a direction, but energy can be all heat and no light. They don't have a machine so much as a conflagration.

In NY-23, the "machine" didn't have the wits to woo Scozzafava, and then didn't advise Hoffman not to withdraw prematurely.

And remember, purple Florida does have a lot of older people. And older people tend to vote in off-year elections. So the usual rule that off-year elections are more easily driven by the side with the most passion, while Presidential years are about appealing to the middle, is somewhat muted in Florida.

Leans Republican because Crist is likely to pull it out. If Rubio wins, or splits the Republican party irreconcilably during the primary, then Leans Democrat.



i would also add that rasmussen is about as biased to GOP as it gets. (0.00 / 0)
I like reading their stats, too, but they are certainly as skewed as PPP is to DEMs:

as you can see from Real Clear Politics comparison:

http://www.realclearpolitics.c...

President Obama Job Approval
Poll Date Sample Approve Disapprove Spread
RCP Average 11/9 - 11/20 -- 50.6 43.4 +7.2
Gallup 11/18 - 11/20 1547 A 49 44 +5
Rasmussen Reports 11/18 - 11/20 1500 LV 47 52 -5
FOX News 11/17 - 11/18 900 RV 46 46 Tie
CBS News 11/13 - 11/16 1167 A 53 36 +17
CNN/Opinion Research 11/13 - 11/15 1014 A 55 42 +13
Quinnipiac 11/09 - 11/16 2518 RV 48 42 +6
ABC News/Wash Post 11/12 - 11/15 1001 A 56 42 +14


Rasmussen (0.00 / 0)
Yep Rasmussen is a joke.
I've been watching Obama's approval ratings there on RealClearPolitics.com and Rasmussen normally always have a negative number for Obama.  Which sucks because the other folks have positives and it is 'always' the Rasmussen number that brings the RCP average down.

[ Parent ]
Polls (0.00 / 0)
I don't go by polls. And I know Rasmussen for what they are. I specifically said I don't think this has anything to do with the polls.

It has to do with people I know in Florida, and what they've been hearing and seeing.

It has to do with the retired in Florida, and the force that they are.

Do I hope Crist wins the primary? ABSOLUTELY. If Meek loses, I would prefer Crist in the Senate to Rubio. Do I think he CAN win? m-a-y-b-e, but I wouldn't make book on it. Can Meek win against either Democrat? I just can't see it. He's got $2 million on hand, compared to the over $6 million each of Rubio and Crist have. He's flying under the radar, comparatively. He lacks appeal in the panhandle, Jacksonville, and the southwest.

Show me a path to victory....I'd love to see it, but I just don't.  


[ Parent ]
I dont see rubio winning florida (0.00 / 0)
i think we either get a moderate wishy washy specter like crist, or meek if rubio is the nominee, just my take, i could be wrong. i am in florida, but not as active as i once was

[ Parent ]
UplandPoet (0.00 / 0)
I know you don't see it.

My question for you is: is this emotional? (As in, I clung to Tom Allen until the day of the election...I was so desparately hopeful... AND WHAT A DIFFERENCE IT WOULD HAVE MADE!)

Or do you see a path for Meek via organization or money? Or a different Democratic nominee? Or a complete implosion of Crist and Rubio? The thing, as horrible as this is to say, is the question of whether old white retirees will vote for a progressive African American.

Obama won Florida by 2.5%, and if memory serves, he didn't win the senior vote. And seniors are a large part of the electorate. That was a transformational election, and I'm not convinced Meek can "rally the troops" the way Obama did, and it will be the senior vote that will sink him. So, I don't see a path for him -- but if you know something else, please let me know!

I'd like to be wrong on this.



[ Parent ]
Doc, on Meek and Crist and Rubio (0.00 / 0)
I see Crist winning solidly, getting the conservatives to hold their noses to not let a liberal BLACK man be their senator. I see Rubio getting those same voters happily, the difference is, moderate independents and Dems, as well as older folks who might have a bigger bias against a black person would vote for Crist, but not for a wingnut. I see Meek getting the 40% base dem vote either way, but with Rubio, the younger voters will go for Meek, the seniors will split as will the indies, giving us a close win, and yes, the obama organization will do its best to get out the vote.

with crist, i dont see it as even close, with rubio, it is ascary roll of the dice, but we either get progressive or a wingnut. i almost hope for crist, because he will be reasonable on most issues, but if we are ever gonna get a progressive, it will probably be a rubio vs meek sort of fellow. i wish we had a good progressive PALE hispanic running, it would more of a sure thing, but can't think of who might have a big enough platform to meet that criteria.

i like meek, but unless we get another situation where people who are only moderately racist feel compelled to vote for a black man, i see it as a huge problem, but then, while everybody is looking at the panhandle and seeing all the white rednecks, we have a lot of black folks up there, too, and the votes are counted statewide, so if he gets 25% in the panhandle and wins the i4 and south, meek just might get there. if he can obamanize himself enough, i think he has a good chance against an extremist


[ Parent ]
some stats about florida: (0.00 / 0)

We are blacker, more hispanic, and less white non hispanic than the rest of america, and younger more than older, though not as much as the rest of america

If the columns don't line up, try this:

http://quickfacts.census.gov/q...

White persons, percent, 2008 (a) 79.8% 79.8%
Black persons, percent definition and source info Black persons, percent, 2008 (a) 15.9% 12.8%
American Indian and Alaska Native persons, percent definition and source info American Indian and Alaska Native persons, percent, 2008 (a) 0.5% 1.0%
Asian persons, percent definition and source info Asian persons, percent, 2008 (a) 2.3% 4.5%
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander, percent definition and source info Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander, percent, 2008 (a) 0.1% 0.2%
Persons reporting two or more races, percent definition and source info Persons reporting two or more races, percent, 2008 1.4% 1.7%
Persons of Hispanic or Latino origin, percent definition and source info Persons of Hispanic or Latino origin, percent, 2008 (b) 21.0% 15.4%
White persons not Hispanic, percent definition and source info White persons not Hispanic, percent, 2008 60.3% 65.6%


[ Parent ]
Education Conventions (0.00 / 0)
I think it's too soon to tell what is going to happen in Florida.  Glenn Beck is starting up some shit down there soon with his 'education conventions' ... the nuts will be a factor and if the nuts make too much of a noise then that will probably motivate the democrats to come out in full force.

Glenn Beck Announces 'Education Conventions' (Secretly Filmed By Media Matters @ BecKKK Rally)





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