Welcome to DCW

Donate to DCW

Health Insurance: Fighting the Lies (Updated 9/14/09)
House Forecast: 242.4 (-14.6)

Senate Forecast: 57.1 (-2.9)



2012 Democratic Convention
2012 Republican Convention
Primary Calendar
List of Key Nominees
Confirmation Hearing Schedule
Ambassador Nominations

Nomination Count
Nominated389
Confirmed293
Last Updated 12/21/09

Follow DCW on Twitter
A Guide to DemConWatch
Tags
FAQ
2008 Democratic Primary Links
2008 Democratic National Convention Links
DemConWatch Archives '05-'08
DemConWatch Speeches
Inauguration Information
DCW Store

HOME
Mobile Version


Search


Advanced Search
Contributors:
MattOreo
DocJess

This site is not affiliated with the DNC, DNCC, or any campaign.

Email us at




Blog Roll
Frontloading HQ
The Field
MyDD
Swing State Project
DemNotes
DemRulz

DCW in the News
AP
Politico
Wall Street Journal
The New York Times
NPR
Wired
US News & World Report

Senate Health Care Vote (60-39) and Analysis

by: DocJess

Sat Nov 21, 2009 at 20:08:38 PM EST


The vote is in, and the Reid bill has passed on to debate by a vote of 60 - 39. And we don't even need to write the list, we can name them by memory. Debate will begin following the Thanksgiving break. 

I watched the last several hours of discussion, and was struck by the following:

1. The IIE lied. Not stretched the truth, just plain lied. Every time their turn came, it was the "when did you stop beating your wife?" discussion.

2. Robert Menendez (NJ) was masterful. He spoke not in terms of anecdotes, nor morality, but of the specific improvements that implementation of the reform bill would make to his constituents if enacted.

3. These are what the arguments will be as the bill moves to discussion, and later to conference. And it's important to notice who said what, and what they really meant.

For the Republicans, the simple truth is that they had YEARS to make the incremental changes they claim they want. They had YEARS to improve the situation. They were the majority, the knew the deal. And they chose to do nothing. Their argument will be deficit spending, and that can take hold if the Democrats do not volley back with the comparative cost of doing nothing. For this is not just about health care, but also about the ability of our businesses to be competitive in a global marketplace. 

For the Democrats, it will be necessary to fight the lies quickly and simply, to explain what this bill means for the specific constituencies of workers with insurance, workers with no insurance, the unemployed uninsured, the elderly on Medicare, etc. etc. etc. While it IS a moral and ethical obligation for a country to provide health care for its citizens, that will not be the argument that will reach the masses.

In the second sentence of the first paragrah, I mentioned that we know who voted in what manner. And we do: those of us who are political junkies. We can name all 100 Senators. (If you personally cannot, please keep it to yourself...I'm betting you can.) However, the majority of Americans can not name THEIR two senators, much less 20 senators. What THEY heard tonight, if they watched, or what THEY will read and see on news clips is the few lines that will resonate with their most base instincts. For the Fox News crowd, this means the idiotic speeches by McConnell and Bennett and Hatch - hard to deny because when you never beat your wife, you cannot have stopped beating her. 

Therefore, our words must be structured, on message, clear and to the point. I will try to find the Menendez speech and get it posted tomorrow so you can all see what I mean. THAT is the way to win this thing.  

Floor is open... 

DocJess :: Senate Health Care Vote (60-39) and Analysis
Tags: , (All Tags)
Print Friendly View Send As Email
Coburn? (0.00 / 0)
I believe it was Coburn that didn't vote, based on listing to the list..but willing to be wrong if someone has other info

C-SPAN (0.00 / 0)
C-SPAN just said it was Voinovich who didn't vote

[ Parent ]
I wish... (0.00 / 0)
I wish that for the votes in the senate, that C-Span would have a scroll at the bottom or a graphic of the 100 senators names and show how they vote - as they are voting.
It would also be nice if they were to have more microphones so that you can hear the senator's responses.  I could hear most of the republicans but barely any of the democrats.  

[ Parent ]
Voinovich (0.00 / 0)
Voinovich "missed" the vote? Hmm...

Voinovich is a maverick at times, having voted against the Bush tax cuts. He's also retiring, so it's harder for the GOP to put political pressure on him.

Since Voinovich is a fiscal hawk, it's hard to picture him breaking ranks to support something the Republicans have labeled as budget-busting. But the CBO has scored it as a money-saver.

You don't suppose...?


[ Parent ]
All I can say is... (0.00 / 0)
One can dream. Seriously though, what are Voinovich's intentions after the Senate? If he still aspires to political office, he would never vote for the health care bill, because he needs to keep his conservative chops.

"Is profit and greed the only conceit on a scale between mere prosperity and inhumanity? It may well be." -Bad Religion

[ Parent ]
Answered my own question (0.00 / 0)
Oh, he's 73 and was already Governor of Ohio, so I guess he really is retiring from elected office. Unless he wants to be President, there's no where else to go.

"Is profit and greed the only conceit on a scale between mere prosperity and inhumanity? It may well be." -Bad Religion

[ Parent ]
Never mind (0.00 / 0)
If the first procedural vote is delayed until Saturday, Voinovich won't be around Washington  to participate. He's got an anniversary to observe -- his 30th since being elected Cleveland's mayor in 1979 -- and he's going to spend it with his old team. It's not that Voinovich's vote won't matter, but he's in the "no" column already, and Reid needs 60 "yes" votes just to move to the next procedure.

source


[ Parent ]
Unprecedented? (0.00 / 0)
I can't think of many times when cloture has had to be invoked on a motion to proceed.  Cloture normally has only come into play on final passage.  Can anyone think of any time in the past that there has been a motion to proceed passed on a party line vote.

Perhaps... (0.00 / 0)
I can't recall any other case either, but this is historic as health care reform has NEVER gotten this far before. In addition, it now takes 60 votes to REMOVE things (like the public option) that folks don't like.

What I DO recall is how the IIE manipulated both Houses when they had them under Bush.  


[ Parent ]
Gang of 3 (0.00 / 0)
Well, this is certainly a giant step forward to enacting health care reform, but I still have severe reservations about the situation. How are we going to deal with the Gang of 3 (Ben Nelson, Blanche Lincoln, and Joe Lieberman) who say they will filibuster the bill if it contains a public option after debate?

I still think the best option is to require a traditional filibuster, and hold the vote the minute someone steps out to go to the bathroom and no one is speaking. Wouldn't that work? Nonetheless, tonight's vote was a breeze compared to the next cloture vote. I have no idea what can be done other than to gut the public option.

"Is profit and greed the only conceit on a scale between mere prosperity and inhumanity? It may well be." -Bad Religion


Filibuster... (0.00 / 0)
We can ONLY HOPE that we get a real one!  

[ Parent ]
Tom Harkin (0.00 / 0)
This was the strategy suggested by HELP committee chairman Tom Harkin, of course. He must have Majority Leader Reid's ear, right? So maybe it will happen. Here's hoping, I'm tired of these nonsensical procedural filibusters. Make the Republicans and any Democrats who join them work for it.

"Is profit and greed the only conceit on a scale between mere prosperity and inhumanity? It may well be." -Bad Religion

[ Parent ]
And Sen. Snowe (0.00 / 0)
For all her talk of "history calling," she voted to prevent the health care bill from even being debated. If history is calling, is she going to answer it? Because for the nearly 50 million uninsured in America, nothing has changed since her vote on the Finance Committee. History is still calling, Senator Snowe, answer it!

"Is profit and greed the only conceit on a scale between mere prosperity and inhumanity? It may well be." -Bad Religion

The way forward (0.00 / 0)
I think the way forward is to try to make a deal with the gang of 3 (or 4) involving voting on an amendment to strip the public option. In that case, first to 50 wins, and both sides agree not to filibuster final cloture.

Assuming the attempt to strip the public option fails, then I bet we get Landrieu. She seems to be positioning herself as demanding the chance to consider alternatives. If they're considered and rejected, then she can say she tried, but still thinks that something is better than nothing.

Might Lincoln and Nelson go that way too? Maybe. They've reserved the right to filibuster, but I think they've stopped just short of promising it.

And then it's Lieberman or Snowe or some wildcard for 60. Those two both like flashy concessions to the power they hold in such situations. Snowe will want her trigger to be voted on. If that fails, maybe she can be given some kind of malpractice tort reform. Unlike Landrieu, I think she needs something substantive, rather than just cash for Maine.

It's still a ways to the top of this mountain, and I think we need a solid 50 supporting the public option to keep it in the bill. DCW's count has that support 46-45...we need four more!


Let us pray... (0.00 / 0)
that all the 'yea' senators stay healthy, that there are no resignations, and that there are no accidents until after the final vote!  

by Dec. 23rd (0.00 / 0)
From Politico.com

Harkin: Debate will end before Dec. 23

Senate Health Committee Chairman Tom Harkin said: "We're going to have some long days, we're going to have weekends," Harkin said. "We're going to have three weeks. That means we'll finish on the 23rd of December. And maybe, actually, a little before then -- actually the weekend before then."

.

TLB (0.00 / 0)
I missed the point where Lieberman said he was on board. When exactly did that occur?

Quite a while ago, for this vote (0.00 / 0)
When he first started threatening to filibuster, he made it clear that was for ending debate, not starting it. Here, for example, and here. So he was always more or less on board for this vote, although I think he made it official in the last few days.

[ Parent ]
Lieberman (0.00 / 0)
I listened closely to what Lieberman said on Meet the Press today.

His argument for filibustering the health care bill if the public option is still in it at the end is that it is the only way to get the bill changed, as any amendment to take out the public option would require 60 votes to overcome a progressive filibuster.

If the progressives agree not to filibuster a vote on an amendment of that type, then that argument vanishes.

Of course, it's quite possible Lieberman would just come up with a new excuse.

But what is there to lose by trying this route? The idea of trying to use procedural maneuvers to force passage of a provision less than 50 Senators would support in an open vote seems like political insanity. So if we need support from 50, let's get to 50 and take that vote. If we do get the 50, it becomes much, much more difficult for obstructionists to pull off a filibuster against the whole bill. If they try, make them actually go through with it--it will be much easier to break. And if we don't get the 50, the public option was doomed anyway.

I know I'm sounding like a broken record on this, but I'm trying to read the tea leaves to see how to best work through this.


Last night, America Lost! (0.00 / 0)
So, there were 39 Senators that openly voiced the opinion that there is nothing at all wrong with the Health Care System in America that Congress should fix, and others that needed to be bribed. Last night was not about passing any bill, it was about bringing the Health Care Debate to the floor so the entire Senate could discuss legislation that could make health care more available and affordable. Instead, they have turned a serious matter into a political tool. Well, as some of you know, I am an Independent that leans more Democrat than Republican. Well, ZERO Republican will get my vote after the pathetic display around NOT helping out the American Citizens.

PATHETIC!

The first piece of legislation that Congress needs to start working on in 2010 is Legislation Reform. Take it back to what the founding fathers intended instead of the obstructionist partisan system that is about seeing which lobbyist they can get the most money from. Time to fire some Senators.  





Menu


Username:

Password:



Forget your username or password?

Make a New Account
Currently 3 user(s) logged on.



Subscribe to Posts

DemConWatch on Twitter


View blog authority

Add to Technorati Favorites

Wikio - Top Blogs - Politics

custom counter

Who links to my website?

Powered by: SoapBlox