First Poll on Single Payer Support

Waiting lists and waiting times in the UK (0.00 / 0)

As an interested observer from Britain I'm watching the attempts of the American right to attack our (single payer) National Health Service with some amusement. The fact is that it is probably the single most popular institution of Government we have and any political candidate who said they wanted to fundamentally change it would make themselves a certain loser at the next election.

If you want to refute claims that people have to wait years for treatment, try looking at this page: http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Public...

The links for inpatient waiting times show the number of weeks people are waiting for operations right now. When I last checked, there were 30 people in the whole of the UK waiting for more than 30 weeks. Waiting times for operations used to be a problem, but that was about ten years ago and the Labour government has largely removed it from the area of political concerns. NHS dentistry was covered as a problem but that's because NHS dentists are independent contractors who can opt in and out of the system.

---

by: David Boothroyd @ Tue Aug 04, 2009 at 12:12:49 PM UTC

David (0.00 / 0)

THANKS for the support!  

---

by: DocJess @ Tue Aug 04, 2009 at 14:03:28 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Skew of poll (0.00 / 0)

I agree with most of your comments about the skew due to the sampling, except the question on education. The less educated are, unfortunately, more likely to be swayed by scare tactics and specious arguments ("socialized medicine").

As for the single-payer question, this particular poll characterized that as "similar to Medicare." Polling on a public options has shown that it makes a difference whether the Medicare example is included in the questioning.

Still, support in the general public for single payer around 50% is interesting. And, in line with David's comments, if single payer were actually implemented, support would doubtless become very high within a decade.

---

by: SarahLawrence Scott @ Tue Aug 04, 2009 at 12:59:58 PM UTC

Education and polling (0.00 / 0)

Scott, you say:

The less educated are, unfortunately, more likely to be swayed by scare tactics and specious arguments ("socialized medicine").

In general, I'd agree with your correlation of education and intellect, but not this time.

It is the poor and less educated who line up every year in West Virginia for the 3 day open clinic. When I read about it last year, I was struck by the fact that the most common procedure is having all of one's teeth pulled - because there is no dental care.

It is the poor and uneducated who face the highest risk pregnancies. NOT because they're 50 year old idiots going for in vitro multiple births, but because the women are so malnourished when they get pregnant, and because there often is NO prenatal care available.

It is the poor and uneducated who watch at their diabetic relatives lose their legs due to an inability to afford insulin for years.

You do not fall for the idiot arguments of the right on health care when you have walked on a broken foot until it healed because you couldn't afford to have it set. You don't fall for the rhetoric when you would do ANYTHING for your child to get care for autism, cancer, or a congenital heart problem.

The teabaggers and others fighting a public option and single payer are neither uneducated nor poor. They are paid tools of big Pharma, the insurance companies, and the Christian right. The get on buses to come and disrupt town halls and other meetings - sometimes, they are paid to do so. They have things like vacation time from work so that they can attend.

Look at the videos of the teabaggers - they have teeth, wear decent clothes, are not emaciated, nor do they look sick. These are people who can AFFORD to take time from work.

The SOLE group I am convinced will support Single Payer (aside from the progressive left) are the poor and uneducated who have been kept outside the system.  

---

by: DocJess @ Tue Aug 04, 2009 at 14:14:16 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Not what I meant (0.00 / 0)

I don't disagree; those aren't the people I meant when I said "less educated." I was comparing to the 43% who have college degrees, not using "less educated" as a euphemism for "least educated." It's actually the "some college" group, and some of the "high school graduate" group, that are in the sweet spot for this kind of nonsense.

Look, for instance, at the Presidential exit poll results: Obama got 63% of those with no high school, and 58% of those with postgraduate degrees. While McCain didn't win any educational group, he did best with people who had enough education to have a decent job, but not enough to reject (as a group) jingoistic arguments. I bet you that the vast majority of teabaggers fall in that middle ground as well--while there aren't many of them that are in deep poverty, there aren't a lot (other than a few of the media and political ringleaders) that have master's degrees or higher either.

Incidentally, looking up the numbers, I now see what SRBI did: they more or less matched the percentages to the percentages in the 2008 vote. The groups that are underrepresented in the poll were also less likely to vote.

---

by: SarahLawrence Scott @ Tue Aug 04, 2009 at 14:54:43 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

unfortunately i have to strongly disagree with you here (0.00 / 0)

my experience has been that it is the poor and uneducated that keep voting for progressive cause. I think Chris Mathews explained it best a number of times when he talked about people that don't have much, but they have love for this country. Now don't get me wrong, I have love for this country, but the misguided notion of patriotism that has emerged over the last decade is as potent a tool at manipulating people to vote against their own self interests as the religious elements are. People that will barely make 250k in a decade let alone a year represent the vast majority of people who are OUTRAGED over a tax increases on this vary same class. Unfortunately the right has become experts at using people's deepest values and feelings to manipulate them. There simply can be no other explanation. Big Pharma and the rest of them may be able to pay people to do these tea-bagging things (i wonder how many of them know what tea-bagging means in pop culture today lol) but they can't afford to buy the millions of poor votes that vote against their own self interest every year.

Please continue this conversation if you want by finding me on twitter @Lord_Chadeous

---

by: ChadCo @ Wed Aug 05, 2009 at 07:44:04 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

correction (0.00 / 0)

I meant to say that keep voting AGAINST progressive causes

Please continue this conversation if you want by finding me on twitter @Lord_Chadeous

---

by: ChadCo @ Wed Aug 05, 2009 at 08:03:23 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I'd agree on EVERYTHING but this..... (0.00 / 0)

I know that people vote against their self-interests -- I've just seen too many people over the years who suffer and die, or watch their loved ones die, to believe it in this case.

They vote against taxing the rich because they think that someday their leaky trailer will be replaced with a mansion. Etc.

But I honestly believe that they're behind this....

---

by: DocJess @ Wed Aug 05, 2009 at 08:14:20 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

your right i forgot the one other thing (0.00 / 0)

There are two other economic factors that are used to manipulate people to vote against their own self interest. One is the idea that it will cost them jobs. This is the biggest threat constantly used to manipulate people over and over again. The other is the secret reality of the American dream, and it has nothing to do with equality, its the opportunity to get filthy rich.  

Please continue this conversation if you want by finding me on twitter @Lord_Chadeous

---

by: ChadCo @ Wed Aug 05, 2009 at 22:53:15 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Comment from Germany (0.00 / 0)

David Boothroyd posted an excellent comment here.

I wish to augment that with the german system. I am an american living in Germany since the fall of 1997.

Germany is a single-payer, uni-health system.
We all pay into one pot, but get to pick our own HMO, either a state run HMO or a private one. You are also allowed to change your HMO freely, but after the first change, you must wait (I believe) 2 years before the next change.

You get to pick our family doctor, your dentist, your otolaryngologist, etc. In case you are referred to special therapy elsewhere, you get to choose the specialist. You get to pick the hospital we want to go to should you need care. In the case of emergency transport, the ambulance team decides where you will get the quickest and best treatment for your problem.

You must pay 10 Euros per Quarter to go to the doctors office, other than that, there are no doctors office fees.

A hospital stay means a first day deductible of 50 Euros and then 10 Euros per day.

Children are automatically included in our insurance premiums for a very small price and there is no fee for any medical treatment for children other than the insurance premium. This includes all prescriptions, all hospital stays, etc.

There are strict pricing controls on medications in Germany. A 10 day antibiotic treatment that would cost me up to 150 dollars or more in the USA does not cost more than 9 Euros (15 dollars)in Germany.

There are no waits for services that I have ever experienced in 12 years. I had a serious slipped disc in 2004, was delivered in the ambulance (cost: 500 Euros, this is the one thing that is very expensive) to the local hospital and received 1A treatment, immediately. Unlike the USA, where they automatically operate for a slipped disc and send you packing after 2 or 3 days, the german system wanted to keep me in the hospital for 2 weeks. I had the choice of an OP or to first try out a conservative therapy of shots in the back, freezer treatment, massage therapy, etc. etc. I chose the conservative method and asked to be let out after 6 days. After my release, I went through 8 weeks of physical therapy, with an 18 Euro deductible per week. This therapy would have cost me well over 1000 dollars in the USA.

The point I am making is that that republican talking points about health care just don't add up. The care I pay for here is every bit as good, if not in some ways better than the care I experience in my homeland (the USA)

And as sorry as it makes me to say this: the US health care system is not the best in the world, not by a longshot. It may sound unpatriotic to write something like this, but it is the truth. If we want the best system in the world, then we need reform.

And I recommend looking to the Federal Republic of Germany to see how they do this. If they can manage a system for 84 million citizens in a land the size of Montana, we can do it too.

How do the germans pay for this?

-Premiums are about 13% of gross income. For everyone.

-there is none of this using the ER as a method of last resort if you are not insured.

-preventative medicine is required in order to enjoy the full benefits of insurance.

-there is no price jacking for equipment and research in Gemany.

-Everyone residing in Germany is covered, regardless of citizenship, as long as he has papers indicating he had permission to stay and work here.

---

by: bonncaruso @ Tue Aug 04, 2009 at 14:42:36 PM UTC

My Phone Forum with Darrel Issa last night. (0.00 / 0)

Yup, The Repubs are out in force.
I don't know if you have been informed that good old Issa has his own Health Care Bill HR3438.  Please feel free to read it at the following link.  It won't take long it is just 7 pages long.
http://issa.house.gov/

I was not picked to asked a question but all the individuals who were, except for one, were Fed Employees or Casino workers from several of the Reservations.  Yup they just want to keep things as they are.

Major Points from Issa.
1.  Obama's Plan is 11,000 pages and he did not have time to read it. (I swear this is the truth) TA DUH HIS IS 7 PAGES.
2.  The old car Insurance analogy where the insurance does not fix a car that was already broken.  Preexisting Conditions will be part of the premium risk and no waiving them for access.  People will still be turned down.
3.  As long as people get Catastrophic Care Coverage it will be "OK".  I swear I am not making this up.
4.  Health Insurance is not a right it is a privilege.
5.  Last but not least the reason for high Health Care costs is the Doctors who run too many test NOT the Pharmaceutical Company's or the Insurance companies.
6.  If someone does have a preexisting condition perhaps the State can set up a Forced Placement Insurance like Mortgage Companies do for Home Owners if they let their coverage lapse.  Never mentioned the Costs to the individual.  When I have seen this done for Homeowner Insurance the premium is usually 4 times the normal cost.  
7.  Issa flatly said Single Payer is not an option.  This is the last point.

He is going to be doing these Phone Forums in hour sessions all month so he can inform his constituents.

After this Forum I immediatly had two Martinis and fell asleep during the third.  Coffee is good this morning:)
I must now go to Issa's website and Rant.

---

by: jean @ Tue Aug 04, 2009 at 15:03:47 PM UTC

Clearly nobody is representing their constiuents (0.00 / 0)

I have never seen such a travesty of democracy. I mean, 49% support SINGLE PAYER, the mother of all socialized medicine. Last i heard it was something upward of 70% of people support a public option.

When was the last time something had that much public support and couldnt get passed in a congress super-controlled by the party in that normally supports it?

Please continue this conversation if you want by finding me on twitter @Lord_Chadeous

---

by: ChadCo @ Wed Aug 05, 2009 at 06:14:05 AM UTC

ChadCo (0.00 / 0)

Single Payer is NOT socialized medicine.

Socialized medicine is a government paid - government provided system.

Single Payer is a government paid - PRIVATELY provided system.

Now personally, I'm not opposed to socialized medicine, but it's not the same thing. The wingnuts like to call Single Payer "socialized medicine" as a scare tactic. That's where they get all their nonsense about "more bureaucracy between you and your doctor" and "the government telling you what to do".

Single Payer is just letting the government act as the insurance company - collecting the premiums, paying the claims.

You and I (and many others on DCW) are of one single mind in the necessity of health reform. We just need to make sure we talk in terms that give no cover to the enemies of change.

My Single Payer post -- http://www.demconwatchblog.com...

Explaining it that way helps to make people on the bubble understand.

---

by: DocJess @ Wed Aug 05, 2009 at 08:11:26 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Another example (0.00 / 0)

Hmm...repealing Don't Ask, Don't Tell?

---

by: SarahLawrence Scott @ Wed Aug 05, 2009 at 10:38:19 AM UTC

[ Parent ]